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Is this the only roll under check in the core book? All other "Skills" say to add the modifier and try to beat a DC instead.

In the skill check chapter it has " Listening: Luck", this means I use Luck as a normal stat and add it's modifier and try to beat a a DC correct? Or do I use the roll under Luck check?

On page 19 it states, "The judge will provide specifics . . ." on Luck checks. I'm assuming that this statement is referring to page 360, but there's not information there regarding the roll under Luck check . . ." Characters can make Luck checks to survive impossible situations, at the judges discretion". It also states that , " Luck can be used for skill checks that could only be achieved through sheer luck alone".

When it states Luck can be used for skill checks, how exactly do you do that? add its modifier? But this statement is in the Luck checks section that pertains to the roll under method. So do I use the Luck check as a skill check instead?

Why is the Luck check the only roll under mechanic in the game? I'm just confused as to when to use the Luck check and when to use Luck as a stat for a skill check.

thanks for any help

Alex

It's a common "old-school" house rule to roll a d20, and roll your ability score or less. It makes for a really quick and dirty ability check. Joseph uses this himself. It works really well when you're "testing" straight ability scores, and you don't want to factor "skills" (i.e. Class and Occupation.)

It's a system that lots of people discovered, or created, on their own before d20 D&D came around. When d20 became an "official system", it changed everything to d20 + MOD, high always better thing, most D&D players are familiar. DCC RPG detracts from that standard a bit.

I personally use multiple d6s. Typically 3d6 or 4d6, depends on the difficulty. I proposed, on a different thread, a convention to differentiate regular Ability "Checks" with Ability Tests. Check being the d20+mod vs DC that most are used to, and "Tests" being roll under your Score things.

If roll-under is an issue, then just have players roll 1d20 + Luck Score vs. DC 21. It's mathematically the same as rolling under Luck. Make sure that they're adding their full luck ability score to the die roll, though, not just the luck modifier.

I made more use of this Luck check in TA/TG. A few of the options in those books ask for a Luck check.

Blustar wrote:Is this the only roll under check in the core book? All other "Skills" say to add the modifier and try to beat a DC instead.

Well, to make it simpler, just make the "luck checks" a Luck skill check at DC 10. That should be pretty close to rolling under the attribute.

dunbruha wrote:

Blustar wrote:Is this the only roll under check in the core book? All other "Skills" say to add the modifier and try to beat a DC instead.

Well, to make it simpler, just make the "luck checks" a Luck skill check at DC 10. That should be pretty close to rolling under the attribute.

A sampling of % chances at succeeding on a luck check against DC 10 vs. roll under:

Score of 3 = 40% success rate at DC 10, 15% success rate at roll under.
Score of 11 = 55% success rate with either method.
Score of 18 = 70% success rate at DC 10, 90% success rate at roll under.

I'm not sure I would call that "pretty close" since every score other than an 11 has a success percentage 5 to 35 (a 1 luck) points different.

Making it a flat DC 10 check takes the bite out of a low luck while simultaneously making a high luck less valuable.

TheNobleDrake wrote:

dunbruha wrote:

Blustar wrote:Is this the only roll under check in the core book? All other "Skills" say to add the modifier and try to beat a DC instead.

Well, to make it simpler, just make the "luck checks" a Luck skill check at DC 10. That should be pretty close to rolling under the attribute.

A sampling of % chances at succeeding on a luck check against DC 10 vs. roll under:

Score of 3 = 40% success rate at DC 10, 15% success rate at roll under.
Score of 11 = 55% success rate with either method.
Score of 18 = 70% success rate at DC 10, 90% success rate at roll under.

I'm not sure I would call that "pretty close" since every score other than an 11 has a success percentage 5 to 35 (a 1 luck) points different.

Making it a flat DC 10 check takes the bite out of a low luck while simultaneously making a high luck less valuable.

True enough, but scores of 3 and 18 are quite rare (only 0.46% of characters will have either one). Two-thirds of characters will have scores between 8-13, which is not that far off of a DC 10 check. It's not perfect, obviously, but it is an alternative method that simplifies the confusion of when to "roll under". YMMV, etc. etc.

reverenddak wrote:It's a common "old-school" house rule to roll a d20, and roll your ability score or less. It makes for a really quick and dirty ability check. Joseph uses this himself. It works really well when you're "testing" straight ability scores, and you don't want to factor "skills" (i.e. Class and Occupation.)

It's a system that lots of people discovered, or created, on their own before d20 D&D came around. When d20 became an "official system", it changed everything to

Um, actually the 'roll under' method was how 2nd edition handled non-weapon proficiency checks. Non-weapon proficiencies get mentioned in 1st ed AD&D DMG (p.12), but it is left up to the DM to figure out how to adjudicate their use. The 'roll under the stat' method wasn't a house rule per se, it was part of the non-weapon proficiency system that was an 'official optional rule' offered in the Players Handbook. It was part of the game and from my experience it always seemed to be a popular option, though the folks that didn't like it were quite vocal about it. IMO it works much better than the d20 skill rules because characters are tested against themselves rather than an arbitrary 'difficulty value' set by someone who may or may not have a clue about tracking, blacksmithing, or stealth, etc. To me the 'roll under the stat' method is a better way to handle things; this philosophic decision and not one for the mathematicians. The roll under the stats method (IMO) more accurately emulates the real world; it also means that I don't have to waste time figuring out what DC is best for a situation...
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As far as which method to use for the luck rolls... the answer is simple: use the method that you and your players like best. The book won't burst into flames if you don't play it exactly as written.

Tortog wrote:The book won't burst into flames if you don't play it exactly as written.

It depends on who your patron is...

dunbruha wrote:

Tortog wrote:The book won't burst into flames if you don't play it exactly as written.

It depends on who your patron is...

LOL! Yah, Maybe I should wear and asbestos leotard the next time I run a game...

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