New Spells?

Discussion of all things magical for DCC RPG -- "Let the Phlogiston take you where it will..."

Moderators: DJ LaBoss, finarvyn, michaelcurtis, Harley Stroh

Post Reply
User avatar
cjoepar
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:27 am
Location: Ohio
Contact:

New Spells?

Post by cjoepar »

I'm interested in hearing about what others have done as far as creating new spells for your campaigns. I am currently working on creating a handful of new spells, but I am finding that I do not see many opportunities for new spells that do not overlap with existing spells. I am also having some difficulty making sure that the power of the spells are well balanced.

Please, any input or experience you might share is very much appreciated. Even if it's just to say that you have run into the same obstacles. Thanks all.
Radish
Far-Sighted Wanderer
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:02 am

Re: New Spells?

Post by Radish »

I've designed 1.5 spells for my game. I say 1.5, because I made an Invoke Patron results chart (that's the .5) for a patron specific to my campaign, and also that patron's 1st level patron spell.

I found the process somewhat difficult and surprisingly time consuming. The invoke patron results chart (which I am continuing to tweak) probably took the better part of three evenings to finish; the patron spell occupied my time for a goodly portion of a weekend afternoon. Honestly, I'm not sure either spell is scaled against itself correctly or balanced against other spells in the game. I'm sure I'll get a better idea as the wizard uses them more.

The main result of my foray into spell creation was that I ended up being really impressed by the amount of work that went into the magic section. I can't really fathom the effort that went into those charts, as I kept running into the problem of being able to think of exactly one fewer chart entry than was needed. Maybe it gets easier the more you do it.
User avatar
Skyscraper
Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: New Spells?

Post by Skyscraper »

I've created a few spells myself, mostly for new patrons.

I like spell creation in DCC as it implies a scaling spell power so your spell is more of an entire magic theme.

However, it is soooo time consuming. I mean, creating a spell takes numerous hours of work. Creating a patron is so daunting a task.

The problem, from my standpoint, is that I like to create stuff that is intimately linked to my campaign. Rarely are gods, patrons, demons taken from the book. So I'm faced with having to create my own, which I dislike because it's too long. This has been one of my major dislikes with this game.

I've bought the Demons, Angels and Creatures Between reference, for additional patron material. Good stuff, but not what I wanted for my game.

As for balancing what I did with the pre-existing stuff, I did my best, but I didnt split hairs. I like to design stuff with a few purposes in mind: first, story. Second, if I'm the player that finds this, I want it to be useful. Third, if possible, I want it to be generally balanced with other spells.

I didn't bother with manifestations or with spellburn results.

I really like what I did, honestly. I think it was fun. For example, one patron i did is a marid general (from the elemental plane of water). The patron taint makes the caster either very thirsty or continously seeping with water or the like (effect increases if taint is rolled twice). The first level spell includes shooting a jet of water (can become a tidal wave with a caster check of 35+). The wizard spellburned once with that spell, when he was tackled to the ground by a ghoul and was going to die shortly. He rolled reasonably high, shot a jet of water that projected his enemy against the wall 20 feet way, and saved his life.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
User avatar
cjoepar
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 185
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:27 am
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: New Spells?

Post by cjoepar »

I agree, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of reworking. I mostly enjoy the process, though.

My big hurdle, though, has been coming up with ideas for new spells that don't overlap with existing spells. For example, between Magic Missile and Fireball, you've pretty much covered just about anything you can think of as far as a fire-based offensive spell goes. Can I make a version of Fireball that blasts ice and snow on the opponent? Yeah, I guess, but that's kind of like giving out two magic swords that are nearly identical, but one is red and the other is blue. I'm striving for something more original, I guess. By the lack of response to my original post I'm thinking maybe there have been a lot of others that ran into the some of the same obstacles (or just never felt the need or interest for more spells).

I thank you both for your perspectives!
Maxwell Luther
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: New Spells?

Post by Maxwell Luther »

cjoepar wrote:I agree, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of reworking. I mostly enjoy the process, though.

My big hurdle, though, has been coming up with ideas for new spells that don't overlap with existing spells. For example, between Magic Missile and Fireball, you've pretty much covered just about anything you can think of as far as a fire-based offensive spell goes. Can I make a version of Fireball that blasts ice and snow on the opponent? Yeah, I guess, but that's kind of like giving out two magic swords that are nearly identical, but one is red and the other is blue. I'm striving for something more original, I guess. By the lack of response to my original post I'm thinking maybe there have been a lot of others that ran into the some of the same obstacles (or just never felt the need or interest for more spells).

I thank you both for your perspectives!
Well, you could start by flipping through an old D&D book, like the 1E Player's Handbook, to fill in the gaps. That would also give you a lot of practice for creating totally original spells.
User avatar
Skyscraper
Steely-Eyed Heathen-Slayer
Posts: 660
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: New Spells?

Post by Skyscraper »

cjoepar wrote:I agree, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of reworking. I mostly enjoy the process, though.

My big hurdle, though, has been coming up with ideas for new spells that don't overlap with existing spells. For example, between Magic Missile and Fireball, you've pretty much covered just about anything you can think of as far as a fire-based offensive spell goes. Can I make a version of Fireball that blasts ice and snow on the opponent? Yeah, I guess, but that's kind of like giving out two magic swords that are nearly identical, but one is red and the other is blue. I'm striving for something more original, I guess. By the lack of response to my original post I'm thinking maybe there have been a lot of others that ran into the some of the same obstacles (or just never felt the need or interest for more spells).

I thank you both for your perspectives!
If I create a spell or a patron (that includes spells design), I'm looking for story first. Since I don't want to design anything if I can find it's already done, I look into my (numerous) existing resources first and I'll take the solution if its there - which is usually the case. I look at DCC sources, but also D&D from all editions plus other RPGs. I might then look on the net (thus, I bought the Demons, Angels ... PDF when I didn't find the patrons I wanted in the core DCC book). If I can't find what I want from any of these resources, only then do I design something.

So I'll ask you the question: what do you wish to do with your new spell? What story does it carry?

If you're looking to create spells for diversity's sake or for the fun of designing, which is fine of course, I think you're more likely to fall into the blue sword - red sword problem. Because your references are then existing game elements, as opposed to a story need.

My suggestion would be to invent a story from scratch for that spell alone, even if it's not required for your game. For example, you could think up where that spell comes from. Is it a wizard who invented it? Who was he? Why did he invent a new spell? Before going through the tedious task of inventing a spell, he most probably looked around, tried to research what already exists, and found (quested) what he wanted if it already exists. If not... Then what was his situation, what was the problem he wished to solve that existing spells could not? Was he enamoured with a noblewoman? The spell might then force love (can it be forced? Hehe, fun...) from a target. Did he want to control undead? Did he want to travel the planes? Or, you can simply build a background for the wizard, and see where that leads you. Perhaps he's an elf from the forest, who became an outcast, and had to live alone in a very inhopistable region of the world. His spell or spells might then allow him to travel unseen in the wilderness, or transform into animal-like forms that can control other animals, or transform into plants, ... I would start with that kind of stuff and work from there.

I've created my water-themed patron, and I did not find equivalents for any of the spells I created for him. I've also created a patron of lust and deception, and again I haven't found equivalents to the spells I created for him. (for the latter, I looked at the spell "charm person" for reference for one of his spells, but it was not what i wanted.)

I admit that the DCC spells cover a lot of ground, because each has numerous effects that could be related to a few prior D&D edition spells. For example, the prior cone of cold, ice storm and wall of ice spells might all be different check results of a single spell in DCC. Perhaps as such you have the impression that there are not enough spells in DCC and you want more diversity since there is a lower number than in D&D? I haven't played enough for lack of diversity to be a problem, but I think that the fact that each spell has numerous effects, a different manifestation and a different mercurial effect, is likely to give a lot of life to a single spell.

So in summary, I haven't encountered the problem you mention about not finding new ground to design new spells from, but I would develop new spells starting with story.

IMO, the fact that you find it hard to design a new spell in unchartered ground, is a sign that you do not wish to design anything trivial, which is good. Good luck!
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
User avatar
Raven_Crowking
Cold-Hearted Immortal
Posts: 3159
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:41 am
FLGS: The Sword & Board
Contact:

Re: New Spells?

Post by Raven_Crowking »

I created three non-patron spells for the game already: a version of Magic Wand, which was in Crawl #3 and is on my blog, the Scrying spell in Revelation of Mulmo, and a Silence spell for The Black Goat. I echo Skyscraper when I say, first determine why you want the spell, and then the rest will follow.

(FWIW, both ROM and TBG have the spells as OGC; in the case of TBG because all of the text is, and in the case of ROM, because it was the right decision to make.)
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
oncelor
Hard-Bitten Adventurer
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:55 am

Re: New Spells?

Post by oncelor »

Here's a spell we added when Sister Bee Bee of St Oswald reached 6th level a couple sessions ago:

Cleric Level 3
Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch
Effect: Enchants one metal orb
Range: 1 hand grenade that can be thrown at range 50/100/150 at AC 15. Miss by 5' in random direction per point by which AC is missed.
Duration: 1 turn or until thrown
Casting time: 1 full round
Save: Reflex for half damage

Armaments, 2:9-2:24
(2:9) And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, "O Lord, bless this thy hand grenade that, with it, thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."
(2:10) And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chunks of oatmeal and bananas and raisins and koalas and blueberries and grues.
(2:10.5) Skip a little bit.
(2:11) And all were greatly overwhelmed by this sight.
(2:12) But one did come forth, like a son of the Fire, who cried out, "Let this man not deceive you, for he doth lie."
(2:14) And so there was great confusion as to whom was the servant of the Lord.
(2:15) So Saint Attila did raise his voice to the Lord, saying, "O Lord, tell me, thy servant, how to use this thy hand grenade that, with it, thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy."
(2:16) And the Lord spake, saying, "First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin.
(2:17) "Then, shalt thou count to three; no more, no less.
(2:18) "Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three.
(2:19) "Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three.
(2:20) "Five is right out.
(2:22) "Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
(2:22) "So Saint Atilla did raise the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at his foes, and he did begin to take out the Holy Pin and counted."
(2:23) "One...Two...Five." "Three, sir." "THREE!"'''

1-15 Failure
16-17 1d6 fire damage 5' radius
18-21 1d8 fire damage 10' radius
22-23 CLd6 fire damage 15' radius
24-26 CLd8 fire damage 20' radius, damage to wood
27-31 2xCLd6 fire damage 25' radius, damage to stone
32-33 2xCLd8 fire damage 25' radius, damage to metal
34-35 2xCLd10 fire damage 30' radius
36+ 2xCLd16 fire damage 100' radius, foes that fail to save are stunned 1 round, metal orb is destroyed
serendipitous
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:56 pm

Re: New Spells?

Post by serendipitous »

Zombie Thread! You have been warned!

Bumping it because, first, the chaos in my life has reached the sort of awesome magnitude that portends imminent Doom and Destruction and a best-case outcome of several weeks of everything being salvaged by surviving neighbors and great-hearted international volunteers. So by bumping this I can't possibly lose it because it won't be living in my poor, vulnerable organization "system" but out in the great Cloud in the Sky. And if THAT goes down, nobody will notice for a while because they'll be busy finding potable water & reserve TP supplies.

Also bumping because I am totally loving, and y'all might love too, @Skyscraper's breakdown of some spell creating essentials. Which I need desperately and which would have saved me work & heartache if I'd read it months ago. Offhand I'm summarizing it as:

MAKE YOUR OWN SPELLS: For Story-oriented Judges
  • 0. Know your story. What do you want to with your new spell? What story does it carry?
  • 0.5 Take the time to build the background. Who created the spell? Wizard? Elf? Alien or AI?

    SINCE MORE THAN HALF THE POPULATION ARE NOT STRAIGHT MEN, LET US ASSUME THAT THE CREATOR IS AS LIKELY TO BE FEMALE AS MALE AND HAS AT LEAST A 10% CHANCE OF NON-HETEROSEXUAL ROMANTIC INTERESTS BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER. I'm gonna use the female pronoun and not a neutral "they" because today I am that tired of being written out of DCC rulesets.

    So, have a story for who created the spell and why she went through the tedious, time- and resource-intensive process. Were there quests & adventures & hardships she endured before giving up the search and making her own spell? What was her situation? We have the usual suspects: looking for love, power, revenge, status, money, ability to survive in a hostile world. Since our sample protagonist is female we have the chance to do some female-oriented speculation. What would a wizard-Hypatia have wanted? or an elf-Artemisia? Medea? Sei Shōnagon? Marie Curie? Sojourner Truth? Florence Nightingale? Bloody Mary? Serena Williams?

    (I feel that Skyscraper gave a nice entry into dude-ideas and y'all generally have tons of dude thoughts, so I'm taking a moment to expand y'all's cognitive horizons here. Because this weekend I was at a DCC table where one guy could not help sharing that the obvious cause of cramped fingers in a woman was excessive self-pleasuring. )
  • 1. Search thoroughly in your existing resources first and take the solution if it is there. DCC books; D&D resources; 'net including PDFs like Demons, Angels &c.
  • 2. If you need a spell, keep a few things in mind: 1) Story 2) What will the player find useful? 3) If possible, balance with other spells.
  • 3. Don't sweat if it isn't 100%. Manifestations, spell burn results can be bypassed or fleshed out later.
  • 4. Additional thought, not from Skyscraper -- one can probably take #3 further if necessary. If you end up running a spell that's not ready yet, consider story-basis for spellcaster learning the ropes of the spell and/or the spell perfecting itself as she keeps casting it.

Also, in this Zombie Thread there's oncelor's cool Holy Scriptures. Made me super happy this morning: wherever you are, oncelor, hope you're having a good day.
Last edited by serendipitous on Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
" ... the things I am going to say are true and I am a force for truth and goodness, dammit, and I will beat anyone unconscious if they say otherwise."
-- The Angry GM
serendipitous
Wild-Eyed Zealot
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 12:56 pm

Re: New Spells?

Post by serendipitous »

oops. double post. won't let me delete.
" ... the things I am going to say are true and I am a force for truth and goodness, dammit, and I will beat anyone unconscious if they say otherwise."
-- The Angry GM
Post Reply

Return to “Magic and Spells”